Originally by: Julius Kalmaris

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So I was watching CNN the other day and there was this big hoo-haa about Obama not loving America and not being a patriotic American. As I watched more I found out that the reason this was being said by McCains grunts was because during a rally Obama didn't have his hand over his heart while the anthem played. Oh and he wasn't wearing an American flag pin on his jacket.

You have to be kidding me right? I know politicians from one end of the spectrum to the other are morons but this is just ridiculous. Critisize a guy's patriotitism for not placing his hand over his heart and wearing a 50.cent pin made in China?

Now I'm not American, unless you consider Canada a state, but does one really need to place his hand over his heart for the nations anthem to show that their patriotic? Or wear a pin to boot. Can the guy not just listen to the anthem, understand the meaning to it, and thank it, his countrymen and founding fathers in his own way?

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Originally by: Imperator Jora'h

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Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 03/07/2008 21:31:44
*sigh*

People could, you know, actually try to inform themselves of what Obama's position is on this. He actually just gave a whole, long speech on patriotism just a few days ago and it was widely regarded as one of the better political speeches in a long time (actually this guy is an amazing speaker...his speech on racism in the US last March was considered the best political speech in 40 years).

I'll help you out, here's a part of it from the link I just gave:

Quote:

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Beyond a loyalty to AmericaÆs ideals, beyond a willingness to dissent on behalf of those ideals, I also believe that patriotism must, if it is to mean anything, involve the willingness to sacrifice û to give up something we value on behalf of a larger cause. For those who have fought under the flag of this nation û for the young veterans I meet when I visit Walter Reed; for those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country û no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary. And let me also add that no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides.

<snip>

Of course, precisely because America isnÆt perfect, precisely because our ideals constantly demand more from us, patriotism can never be defined as loyalty to any particular leader or government or policy. As Mark Twain, that greatest of American satirists and proud son of Missouri, once wrote, ôPatriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.ö We may hope that our leaders and our government stand up for our ideals, and there are many times in our history when thatÆs occurred. But when our laws, our leaders or our government are out of alignment with our ideals, then the dissent of ordinary Americans may prove to be one of the truest expression of patriotism.

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Sounds brilliant and spot on to me.

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Originally by: Imperator Jora'h

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Obama is stunningly good in his speeches. They do indeed have to go back to JFK for a politician who was as eloquent and thoughtful in his speeches.

Obama's speech on race was just jaw dropping good. Consider this is a politician giving a speech on racism in America (one of the few third rails in politics...they just - do - not - go there). Done during a bitter campaign. Done when he was being held to account for things the minister of his church had said. Instead of throwing his minister under the bus in traditional political fashion and muttering empty platitudes he explained the issue then proceeded to have a frank and thoughtful and eloquent discourse on racism in America.

His speeches inspired Will.I.Am of the Black Eyed Peas to take portions of Obama's inspirational concession speech from New Hampshire and turn it into a music video. He did another video here (as an aside anyone know who the sexy as hell woman is speaking in Spanish at 0:45...maybe it's the accent...I dunno).

BUT! If you want a real eye opener watch McCain's speech on the same night that Obama clinched the Democratic nomination. Contrast that to Obama's victory speech also done that same night.

When you are all done with that come back and let's talk.

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Originally by: Imperator Jora'h

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I hear you. I recall one pundit opining that he looked like old cottage cheese in lime jello (with that green background).

Mostly watching it is worthwhile for the juxtaposition it provides to Obama's speech. The differences are stark and jump out at you right away (e.g. all of McCain's few dozen supporters giving weak applause at appropriate times to Obama's thousands drowning him out).

P.S. Amazed you actually watched it. Yet more proof EVE has some of the best people around. Doubt many WoW players would be caught dead watching a political speech.

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Originally by: Imperator Jora'h

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Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 03/07/2008 23:43:58

Originally by: Slade Trillgon

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We need some more stinking parties. A nation of 300 million people and we still have only two viable parties. That is just a little backwards.

Slade

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Maybe.

I kind of agree and have thought the same but the calculation is not necessarily as simple as it seems on the face of it. Sometimes you can get a rule by minority (as in fewer people). Say conservatives have 45%, liberals have 45% and libertarians have 10%. Libertarians in the middle of those two becomes the swing vote and effectively dictate what happens. The other two parties have to suck up to them and they get power out of all proportion to how many people they actually represent. IIRC Israel once had a government that operated under this mechanic and it was screwy (admittedly that was a long time ago and I have no idea how it is today...might even be misremembering it was Israel so don't hold me to it).

Not saying there shouldn't be more parties. I agree and often am sick of my only two choices and wish for another. Just have to be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.

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